S3 Ep029 Walking the Land: the importance of small-scale and family farms with Reverend Peaches Gillette, Pt1
Welcome to the Towards a Kinder Public Thanksgiving episode (Part 1 of 2). Walking the Land: A Loving Tribute to Family Farms is a new book of watercolor paintings, poetic reflections, and interviews with small and family farmers in the Finger Lakes Region of New York. Reverend Gillette speaks about the origins of this work in collaboration with watercolorist Tommy Beers, their experiences in visiting the small-scale regional farms, and why this type of farm is so crucial to preserve. We discuss:
Her gratitude and admiration for the work of farming and its deeper meaning;
What a children’s game can teach us about our unique contributions to collective wellbeing;
The brilliance and determination of farmers;
How small and family farms - not large agribusiness - connect us to our human origins.
Bio:
Reverend Gillette is a poet, an ordained chaplain, spiritual counselor, and race relations advisor, who recently participated as a panelist in the Dalai Lama Library and Learning Center’s Interfaith and Secular Ethics Conference in Ithaca, New York. Reverend Gillette has been an educator for more than 45 years in private and public school settings, as well as programs providing educational pathways for incarcerated individuals. She has worked with veterans, disabled individuals, and survivors of domestic violence. Presently, she sits on the Dryden School Board and the Tompkins County Human Rights Commission.
“Farmers have a direct hand, to me, in letting life carry on. And it's not just the life of the people that eat the food, the food itself is life!”
-Peaches Gillette
Transcript
Season 3, Episode 29 (Part 1 of 2) Walking the Land: the importance of small-scale and family farms with Reverend Peaches Gillette
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Farmers have a direct hand, to me, in letting life carry on. And it's not just the life of the people that eat the food, the food itself is life!
And farmers, like medical people, are keeping that life going for as long as it can. And they need to be honored because of that, for their place in this world, in terms of not only feeding people physically, but the idea that that is one of the most precious things you can do for human life…
But, it can't be honored when people are just forgetting and letting them disappear into the background…. And almost, in some ways, forgetting where this whole line of food originated. It didn't originate with big businesses. It originated in small places, with small families. That's where it originated. And that, to me, is something to revere.
[Rhythmic sounds of electric train pulling into station]
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan Castle, host:
Welcome to Towards a Kinder Public, a podcast dedicated to designing kinder public space that better meets our interconnected needs. I’m Cevan Castle, and along with Annie Chen, we are Kinderpublic.
It is our absolute pleasure to welcome back Reverend Peaches Gillette to talk about her new book, Walking the Land, a collaborative work with the watercolorist Tommy Beers.
Reverend Gillette is a poet, an ordained chaplain, spiritual counselor, and race relations advisor, who recently participated as a panelist in the Dalai Lama Library and Learning Center’s Interfaith and Secular Ethics Conference in Ithaca, New York. Reverend Gillette has been an educator for more than 45 years in private and public school settings, as well as programs providing educational pathways for incarcerated individuals. She has worked with veterans, disabled individuals, and survivors of domestic violence. Presently, she sits on the Dryden School Board and the Tompkins County Human Rights Commission.
This new book, Walking the Land, is dedicated to American family farms, and features poetic reflections as well as interviews with the farmers about their work, their hopes, and the future of their farms. The writings are partnered with Tommy Beers’s beautiful watercolor paintings of each of the family farms- capturing not just the moments of abundance and harvest, but also the challenges, the dormant periods and moments of waiting, the beloved and necessary machinery, and the realities of this work.
To give you a little bit of the story of the process of the book, Reverend Gillette and Tommy Beers went knocking on doors to find farmers willing to talk, and willing to let a poet and a painter walk their land, and compile these products of gratitude, admiration, and thanks to the people who give everything to grow our food. In this interview, you’ll also hear a brief reference to a previous podcast with Reverend Gillette, and we’ll link that in the episode notes for you.
This conversation is a meditation on the value of our labor, and is particularly meaningful as we approach Thanksgiving.
It also serves as a continuation of our discussion about the 2023 Farm Bill, which has been delayed in the legislative process, and will now be the 2024 Farm Bill. Kinderpublic sees agricultural land as a critical part of our public infrastructure, and as our podcast listeners know, we have been working over the past year to advocate for regenerative agriculture; small, medium, organic, and family farms; climate resilient methods, and increasing funding to conservation practices. These priorities in the Farm Bill impact our national food security and capacity towards climate change mitigation, along with other critical issues. And no one knows how to work in simultaneous roles as both food producers and land stewards better than the individuals intensely invested in the health of their land and working with nature based methods.
Our conversation on Walking the Land will be shared over two episodes. We hope you will share them with your friends and families. Thank you for joining us for these reflections and gratitude for the work of our farmers. Here is Part 1.
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Hi.
Cevan:
Hi!
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
How are you?
Cevan:
Good, thanks. How are you?
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
I'm good. It is good to see you.
Cevan:
It’s good to see you too. <laugh>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
How was your day?
Cevan:
Going along just fine. How was yours?
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
It was good. I had service, I had to do a sermon today, so that was nice. And it was, it was really talking about, you know, the ways in which we need to stop dividing ourselves from others and looking at them as so different than who we are. And this concept of oneness that is not, you know, it's not just a spiritual concept, it's also a scientific concept. It's like, there are all these great minds out there saying, wait a minute, that you have an illusion about our being so separate from one another, you know. So it went over really well, so I was really glad. Yeah.
Cevan:
That's great. Really needed right now, too.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
It really is awful. Awful. Awful. And we can't seem to, we just can't seem to get ourselves together in any way to stop hating each other. That's basically the bottom line, really, you know?
Cevan:
Right. Right. Yeah.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
We do what we can do, in our own, you know, in our own way. Part of it, to me, is just like constantly, you know, leaning on that message that we need to start… change our consciousness about who we are on this earth together. So.
Cevan:
The thing I've been thinking about too is like, it's, it's such a privilege. I mean, if there's anything that we can take away from this moment, it's that nothing is guaranteed. And so the time that we have is…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
…Should be approached with a different mindset.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
That's right. That is exactly right. Yeah. So, you know, so we'll see.
Cevan:
Mmmm.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
And it's not always about like running off and doing all these grand political things because not all of us are capable of doing it, and we don't have access to doing that.
So, so the question becomes like, outside of that frame of making change, you can't- in this country, if things are going wrong, you could do voting and things- I can't do that in Israel or in Ukraine.
So we have to think of ways to try to make a difference on all those levels, spiritually and scientifically, you know, in order to feel like we're contributing to keeping… I always call it like, holding our fingers in the dam, you know, because unfortunately, like human nature can guide us in a very different direction, and what we're trying to do is hold that back. And maybe in the process of that, change some ways of thinking.
So in other words, when people are saying, well, I don't, I can't do this and I can't do this. We have to think of what we can do and understand that that is enough, because it is part of, it takes all hands to create, you know, a feast, you know, if you want to call it that, like the feast of peace, it takes, everybody has to contribute something. Not everybody brings the same thing.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah.
Cevan:
And I still refer back to the conversation we had last spring, about people making a long line together. So, even if you can't be the person that directly puts their hands on an issue, you can be part of that long chain of support that will eventually reach.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes. Yes, yes. Absolutely. The other day I was using the analogy of when we were children- and it's similar to exactly what you're saying right now- when we were children, we played tag, and there was this, this aspect of it is that if I was touching base…
Cevan:
Right.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
And you, you touched me, you were also safe.
Cevan:
Right.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
It's not about me being necessarily on the front line. It's that chain of support that you're describing…
Cevan:
Right.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
…That makes a difference. It really does.
Cevan:
That story is exactly what I'm talking about.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah.
Cevan:
That story about tag, that you shared last spring.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. Yeah. Makes such a difference to me. It just like, and it can uplift and inspire people to go further, you know, so, yeah. It's, it’s where, this is the kind of thing that I'm always trying to live by, you know, not just talk about, just live by, you know?
Cevan:
Right. Right. I'm so grateful for that conversation, not only because of those really powerful ideas about making those links, you know, to reach as far as you can…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Cevan:
…But also the idea that love is something that you, you have to work on, and you have to take it out, and you have to attend it, and polish it, and practice it…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. <laughing>
Cevan:
And keep it with you, and make a really conscious effort to have it with you.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
And I think you even said like a cell phone, like, we so carefully check our pockets and make sure that that…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Right. <laughing>
Cevan:
…That tool is with us, but the idea of approaching other people with love is the same thing. And you shared that idea so beautifully.
And, that was actually the first, that was the first conversation in the series of interviews that we've had for Towards a Kinder Public. And I want to share my gratitude with you for believing in me, and sharing your time and your words, and how valuable and generous that was.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Anytime, really, I just, I love being with you. I, you know, we share a lot of thoughts about who we are as people, and what we ought to be doing to, you know, crystallize on and capitalize on the love that we can have for other people.
I use part of the interviewing of a couple of the farmers as an example of that, not looking at people on the superficial level and saying, “Well, we're different and our ages are different, and we worked differently and we didn't grow up in the same place.”
And we use all these kind of physicalities and superficialities to distinguish ourselves from others, but it's the essence of who we are, the essence of why somebody would farm. The essence of somebody, why somebody wants to grow their own food and feed their families, we all have that in common. We all have that in common. We're wanting to like, sustain our own lives and work towards the betterment of even our families and the world. We all have that in common. It's not the outward appearance that makes any difference at all.
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. So just to clearly reference that, you've just published a new book called Walking the Land.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
Which was a collaboration between yourself and your friend, Tommy Beers…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Cevan:
…Who is a painter.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
And so the book features his watercolors, and your writing and poetry.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes, yes, yes.
Cevan:
Could you, could you share more, a little bit more about the book and, and how that came to be?
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. I, I just am in love with the whole project. I really am, for a million reasons. And it really started off with, there was this proposal put out, or, you know, for people to apply for grants to do something artistic in the rural areas. And it was really like a huge grant, it was like $10,000, it was like gigantic.
And Tommy and I, you know, we applied for it, but it was like thousands and thousands of people from all over the nation applying for it. So we didn't get it. And we thought, and we were disappointed, and we thought, well, why are we disappointed? Why don't we just do this ourselves? Why don't we create this avenue for people to recognize farms and farmlands and the beauty and the history and the timelessness of how hard people work to grow their own food, and to make sure that their families and even their community are fed. Why would we just let that go because somebody's not affirming it for us to do?
And so we thought, okay, how can we do this?
And Tommy always posts his paintings on Facebook, and it didn't start off with farms. I once said to Tommy, “You know, that absolutely needs a poem. There's no question about it.” And Tommy said, “Well, try it.” And, and I tried it, and I thought, oh, this is very interesting, what's coming out of this.
And what we were really digging for was the spirit behind everything in the painting. In other words, it wasn't just about the farmers, it was about the machinery, the equipment, the desire to build and to make things better and, and more useful, and to spread ourselves out. And that, that comes back to our oneness, that we have this motivation to just keep plugging along against any odds, because farmers face a million odds, and they just keep going because they believe in what they're doing, they love the land, and things like that.
So it started off with that one poem, and then Tommy and I, in a lot of our conversations, realized that we both loved farmland specifically, and how farmland, and I love equipment and machinery and all of that stuff, and how farmland, small family farms are just disappearing…
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
…Out of the consciousness of people.
I mean, we talk about, you know, our children not recognizing where their food comes from. Well, other than going to a farmer's market, most people don't think about the farmers who grew that food, you know, unless you're part of a collective or something.
But in general, most people don't think about the hard work that goes into that, the enormous expenses that go into that, which I did, you know, found out during this project, the amount of money that farm equipment– I mean, it, it's, it's more than buying a house, half the time.
And what happens when that stuff breaks down? What happens when you’re not, you're still doing your work, but you're not really making the income to maintain all of that stuff. So what happens, what happens to these farmers in this farmland?
And so we decided to not only do this collaboration of painting and poetry, but we would interview four farmers and find out right from them what goes on. And so we wrote up a series of questions to ask them about, a little bit about the history of their own lives on farms, um, and to talk about some of the pleasures and the pains that come into farming, um, and what they were hoping, and why they do that work.
And so that was a beautiful part of putting the book together. And, and again, it's so incredible, how this simple book goes back again to like, our oneness, because I didn't know some of these farmers. And so now, I'm a Black woman up in a predominantly white area. Rural areas are predominantly white. And you hear all these things and stereotypes about those country guys, and those… and I thought, well, I'm trying to live what I believe, which is to cross over whatever divide with courage. And if I get rejected, I get rejected. But I will never say, I did not try to close gaps, you know?
Cevan:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
And so I went out by myself at times and knocked on doors and, and thought, okay, I'm going to deal with whatever I face.
And out of it came these beautiful, loving relationships, just pure and simple.
And I thought, this is what we have to do, sometimes we just have to step out and just talk to people and find out. And we sat…
And so, the first farmer who I love, still love and still in contact with is, um, older, much older, very ill. He's getting ill. Is a farmer, all of his, absolutely all of his life was a farmer, is a white guy. Um, different religion. So we have all these things that people can use as barriers between one another. And they were not, between us because we didn't let them become barriers. And we just sat and we talked about the forces in our lives, and the determination in our lives, that make us want to continue moving forward, no matter what. And that's how we connected on that level. And it was really completely beautiful. Yeah.
Cevan:
So you, you actually went and knocked on people's doors.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. A couple of people Tommy knew, a couple not. And we took a chance, you know, and we told them what we're trying to do. We’re like, you know, I, you know and I'm very passionate about what I say, and passionate in what I speak. And I told them how much respect I had for farms and farmers, and people who are working hard, and people who are, who, like, who carry the history timelessly for all of us. Like, all over the world, people farm. That's what they do. They could have the worst conditions, and they will try to figure it out.
One of the farmers actually created his own irrigation system because, like, he lives where there's the worst land. I mean, look at that! You know, that inspiration that goes on because he wanted to grow food.
He wants to bring back the chestnut. So most of what he grows is chestnut trees and fruit trees and things like that. I mean, that is so beautiful to me. And it's such a deep and inspiring part of who we are as human beings, that I am, I'm attracted to it like, you know, like, I'm attracted to any beauty in this world, and I just love it.
And that's how I kind of pitched the thing and then asked, would you mind being interviewed? Would you mind us taking pictures of your farm? And Tommy's going to paint them, and this is the result. So it was really, every step of the way was a perfect human experience to me. You know? And, and I just, I'm just madly in love with the whole thing.
Cevan:
Yeah. It's a beautiful, beautiful book. And I, I love the way that you talk about the expertise of the people that you were speaking with. And to me, it's a, it's an occupation that's similar to teaching, in that you have to be an expert in so many different things.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes. Mm-Hmm. <laugh>
Cevan:
And you’re really committing your physical body and your strength to the work. And, um, it's very demanding on your stamina, but it's also, um, an intellectual activity, a scientific activity…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes. <laugh> Yes.
Cevan:
You know, and a labor of love, and of nurturing and caring, and, I think it takes a very special person who can operate on all of those different levels…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah.
Cevan:
…Simultaneously.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah.
Cevan:
The stewardship, as well.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes, that's right. And this great creativity. And to be able to, to, be so committed to this thing that you will just roll with the punches.
Like, one of the things, one of the farmers- the same farmer I’m talking about, Jim- told me is that his equipment had broken down, his tractor, and he couldn't like harvest. So, you know, sometimes you go to neighbors and go, “Can I borrow your tractor? Or, can you bring it over?” And his neighbor’s tractor broke down! And so he lost everything that season.
You know, some people would throw in the towel, but these people, I mean, they are just, he is just, “You know what, I'll figure this out and we will do it again, and we'll pick up the pieces,” and things like that. And I just, I love that. I just love that. And this is not about like, because I'll get power and because I'll be rich. This is simply about, this is what I love to do, and I'm going to face the odds, and I'm going to work my way through them and continue to do this. And that is such, that is so powerful to me, about the human spirit, that I just love it.
Cevan:
I think it's something that we need to be reminded of. It's, it's something that we can do. We can…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
…We can push through and we can find the things, the threads that will allow us to..
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
…Complete the work, and to carry it forward.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah. Yeah.
You know, I've always loved machinery and mechanics and things, and like the idea of somebody like tinkering around with other parts and collecting things to fix that tractor again, <laugh> like, I love that kind of stuff because it's so brilliant and creative. And it’s so, like you're saying, it takes so many parts of our bodies and our minds to keep this thing moving along.
And here we often look at farmers, because, you know, there are many of them who don't have academic educations, we look at them as somehow less intelligent, when they are completely and absolutely brilliant! Completely and absolutely brilliant.
That is another divide that we set up in society, that I refuse to stand on one side of. I always want to cross and go, “I don't care what you are, what you do, what you've learned, who you are, I know that we're connected.” And I'm gonna make this work out in a creative way, like through a book or whatever, through just being in love with one another. And sitting down and talking.
I'm sitting in somebody's- one of the farmers- and watching them weeping over how hard it's become on his body and things like that. But he doesn't say, “And I'm stopping.” He never says that. He's like, “I'll go to sleep and pray for another day of being able to get up and do this again.”
You know, for me, it's just incredible.
I have the highest level of respect for these people.
And I, and I want them to know it, and I want everybody to know that, as much as I can. You know.
Cevan:
Your description of the work on the machinery, and the ability to use whatever is on hand…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
<laugh> Yeah.
Cevan:
…And to see things from different perspectives and to reapproach the problem from a million different ways, this reminds me a lot of your classroom. <laugh>
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Oh. <laughing> Yes.
Cevan:
<laugh> I can definitely see your approach in that, and the idea that we can look at things and see them for what they are, or we can look at them and apply the labels that we have for them.
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
And halt the process of innovation through that barrier to the experience, right?
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
That's right. That's right. Exactly.
And often, we do do that. You know, I often use the words with anybody, children, whatever, “Let's try to figure this out.” I never go, “Oh, well, I don't know what we're gonna do.” I'm like, “Let's try to figure this out, and I'll try to figure it out with you.” You know, because, like you're saying, like, to try to turn things around and look at them from a very different perspective.
I love the concept because there was a movie that was kind of based on that, where let's say several people looking at the same exact thing from where they were standing. And so when they described that thing, it was completely different, because they're standing from different points of view. And if we can take problems, and try to look at them from different points of views, then our answers and our solutions to them will always come up differently. And if we can put those things together, we might accomplish something amazing <laugh>, you know? So I love saying, “let's figure this out.” In other words, let's move around this object and look at it from various sides, and then see what we can come up with while we do that.
Cevan:
In reading your book, I got a real sense that you understood the loss of the family farm as the loss of a very important- I don't want to say resource- but, um, a very important idea…
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Cevan:
…Place….
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>
Cevan:
…Process….
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yes.
Cevan:
…In our country. Could you talk a little bit more about what it means to lose those places because we are not supporting them through these difficult times?
Reverend Peaches Gillette:
Yeah, yeah. And I love that you use several different words to describe the loss, because it is never one thing. It's a beautiful history. And as much as we take often take this country for granted, really, we completely take this country for granted- this country is far from being perfect- but we have opportunities in this country and determination, because we always see like the little windows of hope somewhere, um, where there are places that don't have that hope. They don't have a way out.
And farmland and farmers represent that idea of this country being like, here, you could take a piece of land, and even if it's hard and not perfect, that you can make this work, partially because you are here. You may face like, even climate changes and weather problems and things like that, but there are always people here, because there are other farmers who respect what they do, who try to come to the rescue, you know, who try to help you out. And even organizations and agencies at times.
And so, the biggest strand for me, is like this lineage, not just within the person's family, but the human lineage of farming itself. That should never be taken for granted and never be forgotten and should serve as an inspiration for us, to know that we can make this food problem work out, that we can make healthy foods work out. Because we've seen it a million times, you know, we, we live in a place where we have been, we're lucky to be able to look back in our past and go, oh my God, this is what everybody's been doing. This is what the Native Americans have been doing. This is what everybody here… it's like this long line of this beautiful way of existing and sustaining life itself, life being a precious force.
And farmers have a direct hand, to me, in letting life carry on. And it's not just the life of the people eat the food, it's the food itself is life. And, and how could that not be the most powerful thing in the world? And an inspiration. You can extrapolate all sorts of things from that and go, oh, I could take that consciousness and that reality and reapply it in other areas of living, that determination. There's such an inspiration to us in terms of the fact that we are, we are born and we are alive, and we are attached to that. And so we try to come up with ways to keep that going as long as we possibly can, you know?.
And farmers, like medical people, are keeping that life going for as long as it can. And, and they need to be honored because of that, for their, their place in this world, um, in terms of not only feeding people physically, but the idea that that is one of the most precious things you can do for human life. That's brilliant to me. And it's worth being honored, by everybody. But, it can't be honored when people are just forgetting and letting them disappear into the background. You know? And almost in some ways, forgetting where this whole line of food originated. It didn't originate with big businesses. It originated in small places with small families. That's where it originated. And that to me is like, is, it's something to revere, you know? So I'm very attached to that.
And I want these farmers to know that. They don't hear that from most people, you know? Not at all. They need to know that there are people like me out here that are like, okay, this, in this area, I worship who you are. It doesn't matter who you are in terms of whether we have the same personality type or whatever. I worship the fact that you're doing this work, and this life itself is built on the hard work that people do that reaches and touches other people.
And that's what we all should be doing in anything, whether it's teaching or farming, whatever. That's what we need to be focused on. How do we reach other people and inspire them? How do we reach other people and even give them hope, for that matter? You know, techniques that are used in one farm, somebody else might know, but another farmer says, “Hey, try this technique. You know, it might work.”
So we're always touching base and inspiring people, you know, and that to me is just like, holy stuff, in terms of farming.
[Audio recording of a forest with wild birds and two small rushing forest brooks fades into background]
Cevan:
Thanks for joining us. Be sure to check out our website, kinderpublic.com, for more information about our guest and the topic, as well as a full transcript of the conversation, which can be found on the podcast page.
Captioned episodes of all of our interviews are also available on our Youtube channel, where we are @kinderpublic. We are also on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, we’d love to hear from you there!
I’m Cevan Castle, and my guest has been Reverend Peaches Gillette. Our conversation about her new book of interviews, poetry, and paintings, in collaboration with painter Tommy Beers, will continue in the next episode.
Please take extra care, and have a good holiday.
[Sounds of forest with small rushing brooks and wild bird sounds fade out]
Works cited in this episode:
Beers, Tommy, and I. Peaches Gillette. Walking the Land: A Loving Tribute to Family Farms. Beers and Gillette, 2023.
Mentioned in this episode:
S1 E2 Belonging and Absence in Public Space with Reverend Peaches Gillette, Part 2
Dalai Lama Library and Learning Center 2023 Interfaith and Secular Ethics Conference
Additional thanks to:
Sound effects and ambience in this episode thanks to the incredible sound work of Joseph Sardin and www.bigsoundbank.com
Find more information on the climate and food security importance of small scale agriculture and family farms in these Towards a Kinder Public episodes: