S4 Ep_031 Parenthood, Gender Bias, & Maintaining Engagement in the Art World: with Cultural ReProducers Christa Donner & Selina Trepp, Pt.1
US-based artists Christa Donner and Selina Trepp discuss their collaborative work on the problem of professional inclusion for artists and cultural workers who are also parents. Through Cultural ReProducers, a creative platform initiated by Christa Donner, they experimented and devised a Childcare Supported Event Series that allowed artist-parents to maintain professional engagement in the art world. We learn:
What challenges cultural workers face in continuing their professional engagement with the art world;
How these challenges may be exacerbated by gendered expectations around caregiving and the labor of raising children;
The experience that made Christa and Selina realize that a clear mission statement was a critical first step to introduce the project to cultural institutions;
Key technical details about the model - including space requirements, timing, staffing, and programming info- that are necessary for improved professional inclusion of parents.
Bios:
Christa Donner is an artist, writer, and organizer who investigates the human/animal body and its metaphors. Her practice combines material exploration and social exchange to propose speculative models that move between the emotional architecture of our own bodies and the layered histories of the world we inhabit. Donner's work is exhibited widely internationally and throughout the United States.
In 2012, when her child was one year old, Donner initiated Cultural ReProducers, an evolving creative platform for and about cultural workers who are also working it out as parents.
Donner's practice extends to her role as a curator and educator. She has taught across nine colleges, including fifteen years at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC), and currently teaches courses in creative research, drawing, and multisensory making through the Five College Consortium in Western Massachusetts.
Selina Trepp (Swiss/American b.1973) is an artist researching economy and improvisation.
Finding a balance between the intuitive and conceptual is a goal, living a life of adventure is a way, new perspectives are a result.
She works across media and space; combining performance, installation, painting, and sculpture to create intricate setups that result in photos, drawings and animations.
In addition to the studio-based work, Selina is active in the experimental music scene. In this context she sings and plays the videolah, her midi controlled video synthesizer, creating projected animations in real-time as visual music. She performs with a varying cast of collaborators and as one half of Spectralina.
“Selina and I were having this phone conversation, and I was like, I still feel isolated. We can do these interviews remotely, and we can have these playgroups that don't really feel like we're connected to the art world, because we’re just at a playground talking about our kids. How can we get back into these spaces, and why is that so hard?
”
-Christa Donner
Transcript
Season 4, Episode 31 (Pt. 1 of 3) Parenthood, Gender Bias, & Maintaining Engagement in the Art World, with Cultural ReProducers, Christa Donner & Selina Trepp
Christa Donner:
Selina and I were having this phone conversation, and I was like, I still feel isolated. We can do these interviews remotely, and we can have these playgroups that don't really feel like we're connected to the art world, because we’re just at a playground talking about our kids. How can we get back into these spaces, and why is that so hard?
[Rhythmic sounds of electric train pulling into station]
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan Castle, host:
Welcome to Towards a Kinder Public, a podcast dedicated to designing kinder public space that better meets our interconnected needs. I’m Cevan Castle, and along with Annie Chen, we are Kinderpublic.
This is the first episode of Towards a Kinder Public’s 4th Season, which is dedicated to a close look at the interweaving of social, spatial, and organizational exclusion.
Our guests today are Christa Donner and Selina Trepp, two highly accomplished US-based artists.
Christa Donner is an “artist, writer, and organizer,” who “combines material exploration and social exchange to propose speculative models.” Her work has been exhibited widely, including international institutions and throughout the United States. In 2012, when her child was one year old, Christa initiated Cultural ReProducers, an evolving creative platform for and about cultural workers who are also parents. (Excepted from www.christadonner.com/about)
Selina Trepp is a “Swiss/American artist… researching economy and improvisation,” who works across media and space; combining performance, installation, painting, and sculpture to create intricate setups that result in photos, drawings and animations.” Selina is also “active in the experimental music scene,” and “performs with a varying cast of collaborators and as one half of Spectralina.” (Excerpted from https://selinatrepp.info/page/1-bio.html)
And Spectralina will be featured at the end of this episode, where you’ll hear a clip from a live-streamed audio and visual concert from 2021. This is linked in our show notes so you can view the entire performance and animation work from that event.
Christa and Selina are joining me to speak about Cultural ReProducers, and the model they created to help artists who are also parents maintain professional engagement with the art world. We’ll discuss the Cultural ReProducers Childcare Supported Event Series that they curated and organized in Chicago.
As we will be discussing exclusion due to reproductive status and gendered social expectations, I’ll take a moment to clarify our framework. Kinderpublic recognizes and celebrates all people and families. Our hope is that individual roles within families have the ability to find a workable balance, free of any biological and gender expectations that are experienced in harmful or limiting ways. We observe the many ways that different families divide paid work and the labor of raising children, and acknowledge all of this as profoundly important.
But, to what extent are professional spaces and public spaces able to support the needs of families, in all their diversity?
When considering this question, rigid expectations come into focus, whether they are manifested in the way we design and appoint our public bathrooms, or the way the work week is typically structured. According to a 2017 survey by the Pew Research Center, the broader public still grants the idea of a biological binary a great deal of weight in determining social roles.
We will be taking a closer look at this, and the formation of the childcare supported event series model.
Thank you for joining us for Part 1 of our multi-episode interview, on the work of Christa Donner, Selina Trepp, and Cultural ReProducers.
[Subway chimes arpeggio played on mandolin]
Cevan:
I'm so glad to speak with you both today. I've been following your work for a long time.
I feel like this conversation carves out a special place where no part of our labor needs to be hidden or minimized. We can acknowledge ourselves as parents and let that exist side by side with our professional lives, or even let those roles intermingle, with the knowledge that we bring more to the table as a result of our parenting and not less. And that mindset can still be very hard to find. So, thank you so much for your work, and welcome. Could you each introduce yourselves and share some details about your background and art practice?
Christa Donner:
Selina, you want to start?
Selina Trepp:
Alright. I'm Selina Trepp. I am an artist based in Chicago, originally from Switzerland. I am an artist. I work in many… sort of a jack of all trades, so it's very difficult for me to say what exactly I do, but I do a lot of different things. I animate, I work within many different spaces, I guess. I think this is sort of what is unique to my practice. I work within the music community, within the arts community, and now, lately, in public space.
I'm married to a musician and we have a wonderful 12-year-old child who's Autistic, and yeah, I think that's about it.
Christa Donner:
And I’m Christa Donner, I'm a multi-disciplinary artist. I like to work in between, I kind of move in between a material practice that is very based in drawing, and also more recently sound, sort of immersive audio walks. And then this more social exchange-based practice, that is my research practice, that tends to come from collaborating with different communities, whether it's groups of teenagers in the countryside or historians of science in Berlin. There's these different communities and I'm really interested in how different groups of people perceive things and how to translate that into zines and postcards and comics, and then back into my more speculative studio practice.
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. Thank you.
Christa Donner:
And I should say I'm also the mother of a 12 year old, and I met Selina when we were both new at that whole motherhood thing, because our kids were around the same age, and we were talking about our problems <laughing> and problems with the world and the art world.
Cevan:
<laughing> And I'll add that I am the mother of an 11 year old, and an 8 year old, and a 4 year old, but my oldest is 11. And so, I became acquainted with your work very early on due to my problems <laughing> aligning with a lot of what you were talking about. So I really appreciated your conversations and your public work.
What is Cultural ReProducers? Can you explain more about the group, how it formed and its membership? I'm unable to locate this reference again, but I think I read somewhere that the first Cultural ReProducers meeting took place at an undisclosed location, and I'm very familiar with the kind of sticky moments that can lead to conversations about revolutionary maternal action. So how did this all start?
Christa Donner:
Yeah, so Cultural ReProducers, I think we describe it as a creative platform that both serves and is served by, or you know like, is sort of a collaborative creative platform for artists who are also working it out as parents. Or I should say cultural workers who are also working it out as parents, because not all the people who are involved in cultural producers are artists per se, but many of them are art critics and writers and curators and people who, arts administrators.
There's a lot of different folks working in the arts that recognize and feel very deeply the inadequacies and the imbalances there once they become parents. Yes.
As for undisclosed locations, the first few gatherings of Cultural ReProducers began as it started out as sort of a playgroup for artists and curators and just people in the arts to meet, because I was feeling really isolated. I think that was one of the most surprising things for me.
I had been hearing all about how, oh, you shouldn't try to juggle parenthood with an art practice. It's not going to work because of time, because you won't be able to make work and no one will take you seriously. And that never really made sense to me.
And then I had a child and almost immediately, right, was like, oh, I see. And it's not just that people don't take you seriously. It's like you can’t… you're completely cut off. You can't go to art openings anymore because they all happen during dinner time, and maybe you'd have to get a sitter because your kid would be squirmy and very uncomfortable, and that would make it impossible for you to have conversations. So I think the first couple times that we tried to do something, it was like a playgroup at my apartment or in a playground, and they didn't really work very well. They were kind of chaotic and no one could actually have conversations because babies are really cute and distracting. But yeah, so undisclosed locations- my apartment. <laugh>
Cevan:
I love that.
Christa Donner:
I guess I should add, not to be too rambling, so I say Cultural ReProducers is a creative platform, but that includes so many things. That's why I use that very vague term. It includes zines, it includes live events- often with childcare if we can manage it, that includes a website with skill sharing resources and interviews with artists, and it includes a Facebook group that's doing its own thing now, it's running itself, but it includes a lot of different sort of moving parts.
Cevan:
And guidelines, too.
Christa Donner:
And guidelines, and a manifesto…
Cevan:
Manifesto… <laughing> possibly my favorite part. Yeah, yeah.
How did this information that you gathered as a result of your early meetings lead to the Cultural ReProducers childcare supported events initiative? You touched on this a little bit, but I'd like to hear more about that. And did you approach the idea of childcare supported events with an awareness that you were developing an alternate model that you could describe with written guidelines? Or did the idea grow more organically, from your need to connect with your community and maintain access to art institutions, and just a need to be slightly more structured than you were with the early playgroups?
Christa Donner:
Selina, do you want to answer that one?
Selina Trepp:
Yeah. It'd be interesting to see if we see it the same way.
Christa Donner:
Yeah.
Selina Trepp:
Which is part of the open platform thing, right, is that everybody comes at it with very different ideas and different needs.
To me, the Cultural ReProducers lecture series that Christa and I did together was very clearly about creating a model. Like, that we saw right away that the need was there, that it wasn't just about us doing something that would work for us, but something that would continue to work, or that they could see that they could have different ideas.
Because it really felt like a lot of the programming, as soon as you're a parent, cultural institutions still care about you in the sense that you have children. So, there's programming for children, and then the parents go along, which is great for the children, but usually not that awesome for the parents. And it's also not really, it's not the same thing as being able to participate in an art scene that allows children to access art or to consume art.
And so we thought, well, for every city, or for our city, it's important to also make sure that women don't fall out of the art scene, which was really what the result was of lack of the way that things are set up. And we realized that with our kids. As soon as we had kids, we were like, well, we know now why nobody shows up with a kid to these lectures because there's a lecture at 5:00pm or at 6:00pm or an opening with a small kid. For most kids, that's a really bad time. They have zero self control in a bad situation, and so you don't go to these things. And so we thought, we need to teach them that they don't only need to give us access to entertainment for our children, but they actually need to help us be participants in the art scene in a way that is adult.
And so we were like, well, what does that mean? And so, they don't think of that because nobody's asked them to do that. They're not thinking that, they're not… the people who are working there don't have those issues. And so we thought by modeling it for them, collaborating with them on one and showing them how to do it, that they then could implement that, or at least that that could be a thought of theirs as they think about programming in the future. And so, I think it was very clearly part of doing it, for us.
Another thing that we realized very quickly, which is why these kinds of models or manifestos are important, is that when you have children, your children grow up pretty fast. And so it's very hard to build something, to keep on building something, when you're already at the next issue. So I mean, very quickly, my issues weren't toddler [issues] anymore, they were like five year olds. And so unless you have a lot of children, you're just kind of like… And now with a 12 year old, I can honestly say it's very hard for me to empathize… I mean, I can empathize with a 2 year old, but it's not what I'm thinking about actively, currently. I have other things that I'm actively thinking about.
So having this trail behind allowed us to have this project and offer it up to whoever wants to pick it up afterwards.
Christa Donner:
Yeah, I mean, I think Selina really helped to solidify that idea that the childcare supported event series should be a model and not just something that would be really helpful for us. I had been organizing these playgroups, and then I started.. the playgroups weren't working because I couldn't actually have a conversation about the things I wanted to ask people, “how are you doing this?” And, “what do you suggest if I'm having this problem? “
So then I started the website and the website was doing its own thing in terms of these skill sharing workshops that were really useful in another way. But I, you know, I think Selina and I were having this phone conversation and I was like, I still feel isolated. We can do these interviews remotely and we can have these playgroups that don't really feel like we're connected to the art world because we’re just at a playground talking about our kids. How can we get back into these spaces, and why is that so hard?
And so there was actually, there was a grant that I don't think is a grant anymore, the Propeller Fund in Chicago, that was specifically funding projects, artist projects that were collaborating with communities, like social… ways to connect artists to collaborate with social… I don't even know how to put it. How would you put that, Selina?
Selina Trepp:
Social Practice. They were social practice projects.
Christa Donner:
Yeah, social practice projects.
Selina Trepp:
They had to have some kind of component to it that was outreach towards a larger community, that was somehow engaging, an active engagement
Christa Donner:
Often for artists who didn't necessarily define their work that way. They were experiments.
And I remember we were talking about this, we were like, ah, wouldn't it be great if there were art openings and events if these lectures were happening at times when we could actually go? And then what if there was childcare? And we were just dreaming, and Selina said, oh, there's this grant deadline due in three days. Maybe it was even less than three days.
Selina Trepp:
It was crazy. Yeah. It was very short.
Christa Donner:
And we were like, let's throw something together. And we threw something together and I made these drawings that were speculative that were like, this is what it would look like if you had this onsite childcare and these events were happening at 11:00am or 9:00am. We wanted 10:00am when your kids are really active, so you can't do anything. You can't be in your studio, but you really want to go do something. Because we were also talking about how as artists, when your child is napping, that's the only time you have for your studio practice, so I don't want to go then
Cevan:
Right!
Christa Donner:
So, <laughing> so we were just thinking about the hours of the events and the fact that there would be onsite childcare. That's optional, right? You can bring your kid with you, but if that's distracting for you, then there's a place where they can be cared for. That, also in our model, was tied in some way to the programming, so you could have a conversation about whatever it was afterwards. And then there were these all ages receptions.
So we really were thinking about it as a… we wanted to come up with something that was a model, that would be a template, that we could do several of these and then be like, okay, here you go, Art Institute of Chicago. Here you go, Museum of Contemporary Art. This is how you do it on an actually pretty small budget.
Selina Trepp:
One idea that we had at the time that we didn't really realize, that I still think it would've been good if we could have implemented it, was to piggyback literally on their lectures. So meaning that if they have a big artist spend the night and make it so that we could have a morning lecture the next day of the same artist for families, and that's not what ended up happening.
We ended up really curating our own. We brought the people in that gave the lectures, and I still think that that would've been even better. Because part of what we realized, I think that was so- or, what you realized- that was so poignant, was that what was needed wasn't so much… or what artists parents need, is the opportunity to hang out with artists parents while not taking care of their kids. But the kids are somehow cared for…
Cevan:
Mm-hmm.
Selina Trepp:
…In a good way.
Cevan:
Yeah.
Selina Trepp:
Because it's expensive otherwise, unless you have family.
Christa Donner:
Yeah. Yeah, it costs money to go to art events, and artists are the most underpaid slash unpaid workers in the arts economy, right? We don't get paid to do anything. <laughing>
Cevan:
As are parents. So you have double <laughing> double negative wages happening here, and then you have to pay for a sitter, which is quite expensive.
Christa Donner:
One thing that we realized pretty early on, we had to, I think we did four of these officially, and then we did some unofficial ones after that. But even with the very first one, we started to realize that we had to be very clear about our goals and our language, because with the very first event, I think, we were introduced to the audience as, I don't remember how it was phrased, but I remember both Selina and I were like, oh….! Because the implication was clearly that we were like the art babysitters, and we had coordinated- curated and coordinated- the entire thing and made it so that the artists who were speaking were going to get honoraria, which they would not have gotten otherwise. We had made all these calls, we had done all of this organizing of both the childcare, and we had this whole parade that was going to happen afterwards that tied into the event, what the artists were doing and what the kids were doing. But yeah, we had really organized the whole thing. And they were like, “Thanks to the art babysitters, Cultural ReProducers!” And we're like, oh no, no, no. So then we really had to figure out what's our mission statement and how are we going to communicate this to institutions moving forward.
Cevan:
Yeah. That's really interesting. I just spoke with a curator recently about having a rubric delivered to art institutions prior to the event, or prior to the collaboration, to make sure that they understood the language and background and mission– exactly as you're saying. So I really, really love that, that you realized you had to do that and you took control of that.
I also want to point out, like, it's really interesting to me that you were taking on the labor of curating the event yourself, which again, is, you know… the last thing an artist parent needs is to take on the additional labor of inventing the event as well <laughing>, but wonderfully you were able to do that, and you also factored in the economics of work in the art industry and paying the people that came to speak, and those are all such important points.
Selina Trepp:
Except that we forgot to put the item in there to pay ourselves.
Christa Donner:
Exactly.
Selina Trepp:
Definitely one of the big things I learned, is that Christa and I actually didn't pay ourselves. Everybody else. <laughing>
Christa Donner:
Which is such a mom thing to do. <laugh>
Cevan:
Mm-hmm. <laugh>
Thinking about the places where you have held childcare supported events, what did those arrangements look like, in terms of the use of the building space, and what were some of the operational needs?
And then I'm going to follow up with the last part of that question after you answer, about the use of the space and any operational adjustments or needs.
Christa Donner:
I think it was really, Selina might remember different ones than I do, but I remember it was interesting because it was so different with each institution, because we started out with a university gallery that was really flexible in terms of what time we met, and they had a space that was really wonderful, flexible to use as childcare space while the main event was happening. Their main issue, I think, I'm trying to remember what their main issue was… you know, it was more like, well, we don't have a budget to pay the artists honoraria or something like that. So we were working around that.
And then on the flip side, working with something like a huge museum, and the museum was like, well, no, we can't open before 11:00 AM because there's a union, and there's you know, like, we can't do that, but we can offer this amazing whatever. We have this great space that's specifically for children and we can help out. We have volunteers who might be able to help out with the childcare and we can provide snacks. So they could offer so much more financial support. But then when it came to some logistical things, they couldn't budge on that.
So it was just each place was quite different. Other places didn't have any place to put the kids, so we were using, like, boardrooms.
Do you remember any other details of that, Selina?
Selina Trepp:
No, it sounds about right. I was more thinking about the logistics of what we would bring and how we showed up, which also we developed kind of by doing. But you know like bringing mats, bringing blankets, bringing in different kinds of sensory toys, really thinking about also activities. It was very complicated because it was a very wide age range too, so just kind of figuring that out. And we only had babies, so that was easy. We weren't aware of how different that would be to have like three year olds who don't know each other, and just the whole complexity of it all, kind of learning what you need. So we showed up with a lot of stuff everywhere, and we were able to just set up in whatever situation we figured out how to do it.
Christa Donner:
And we had hired, a lot of the childcare people that we had hired were also artists and very creative people that way, which was super amazing. It always felt a little precarious, like, oh my God, what if this person's not available that day? Because they were pretty important. It wasn't just any babysitter from care.com or whatever. You know, it was… They were special people.
Selina Trepp:
For sure. And that was very important too, to expose every part of it with a lot of thought, that everybody should have a good time and everybody should have part of the same experience, but at their own level.
Cevan:
And you touched on this already, but you adjusted the timing completely for your events. And they took place when?
Selina Trepp:
Weekend mornings, that was always the goal. So really thinking about when can people go, what's a good time for kids to be doing stuff, thinking about not what Christa was saying, not doing it during afternoon nap, things like that.
Christa Donner:
And it's interesting because more recently I've seen… I have a couple of friends who are fathers who are very fancy successful artists. Fancy… <laugh> you know what I mean. They're very successful artists. They're showing at these very high profile blue chip galleries, and they were like, oh, instead of having my opening on a Friday night, could we do it on a Sunday morning? And this is not framed as family friendly art opening. It's the opening of this high profile artist on a Sunday morning because he wanted his kids to be able to come, and he didn't want his partner to be stressed out, right. So those are things that for us, proposing this with museums felt like we were asking a lot, and you know, it felt like this radical thing, we got grant funding to do it because no one was doing this, and now, you know, it's all about… <laughing>
Selina Trepp:
We also really need to say, we got grant funding. We weren't asking a lot. We came to these institutions and basically said, we're making, we’re financing an event. We gave them something for free, to do something, because they had so no interest in that.
And then what you're saying is basically, now… do you think it's because it's a man, or do you think it's just because we're further along, it's like 10 years later?
Christa Donner:
I think it's a little bit of both. I think some it, one thing that I've noticed in workshops that I've done, and one reason that I think it's actually really useful to frame it in terms of ‘artist parents’ and not just ‘artist mothers’, even though artist mothers are often the ones who really bear the brunt of all of the isolation and the stigma, is that dads <laugh> bring this whole other approach to it, and they don't even question. They're just like, oh, well, this is a building with a lot of, a mixed use building, with studios and parents, and this and that, why is there not childcare in this building? Or, I need to have my opening at a time when my family can come, why don't I just do it on a Sunday? I think that a lot of men don't think about that as much as… <laugh> they don't doubt that, but usually it's the mothers that are the ones…
Selina Trepp:
The caretakers, right? Ultimately. I think that's also maybe what has changed a little bit is that there seems to be slowly, we're moving a little bit away from the idea that automatically the mother is the main caretaker as opposed to the father, and maybe we are actually moving into a space where that's becoming a little bit less weighted in that way, hopefully.
Christa Donner:
Yeah, and as gender becomes a little more fluid, so does parenting, I hope.
Cevan:
Mm-hm.
I also wonder if the stakes are a little bit lower for a dad who asks for those adjustments, because, you know, they don't have the baggage of the like, “Oh… are you a mom or an artist?”
Christa Donner:
Definitely. I mean, definitely. Right? It’s not… Selina, I think, can speak to that very clearly in terms of her career being impacted by motherhood early on.
Selina Trepp:
Oh, yeah. No, for sure. <laughing> Both my galleries had a lot, took a lot of issue with me becoming a parent. One dropped me before, when I was eight months pregnant and…
Cevan:
Wow.
Selina Trepp:
…Was very kind of strange reasoning, but I was like, okay, that's crazy. But then later on, I heard from other people that they, in professional practices explicitly would say, that they would not work with parents- with young mothers- because they wouldn't be able to go on residencies, or art fairs, or do the job, or focus.
And another artist friend of mine who was with a gallery who had an older child, they kept on asking her, “You're not going to have another kid, right? You're not…?”
And so that was crazy. I mean, that was in 2011, 2010, at that point.
And I still see that. I think that's just… we haven't really resolved any of the issues of needing to be able to participate in certain parts of the art market at the same time as one usually wants to have children, because that's when the body really needs to do it, if you want to do it. And the way that everything is organized, especially within our career, is very much about being able to be present in certain kinds of spaces that are not family friendly. And you can't really do it if you don't do that, or it's very hard to do it then.
Christa Donner:
So if you're not in this position where you feel confident about your relationship with a gallery or museum, it's much scarier. It's a huge deal to say, “Oh, actually, I'd like for my family to be there. I'd like to not do it during dinner hours. Could we do this?” Right, that feels like, oh, they're, they're going to drop me if I do that. That feels very risky to out yourself as a parent. As a mother.
Selina Trepp:
It's strange. I mean, for me, actually, I was completely unaware of that. I was so surprised by that. I mean, I was raised in a very radical context where that just wasn't the case. And I came, I'm from a different country, and I was just like, what is going on? Why is this happening? And how can this be? Because it did feel like as soon as I [was] a parent, people would also, I would see them at an opening and they'd be like, “How's being a mommy?”
And I was like, what?
To me, that's kind of like, you don't get to call me mommy. I mean, that's not my main occupation. I’m me. I have a child. Yes. And everything else is also still true, and more important to you. My motherhood is not important to you. Right?
Cevan:
Mm-hmm.
Christa Donner:
Yeah.
Cevan:
Thank you for sharing that.
[Clip of Spectralina’s June 2021 audio visual Quarantine Concert for Experimental Sound Studio (ESS.org) fades into background, beginning with the echoing sound of Selina Trepp’s voice singing over synthesizer and digital percussion]
Cevan:
Thanks for joining us. Be sure to check out our website, kinderpublic.com, for links and more information about our guests and the topic.
A full transcript of the conversation can be found on Kinderpublic’s podcast page. Captioned episodes of all of our interviews are also available on our Youtube channel, where we are @kinderpublic.
We are also on instagram, facebook, and twitter! We’d love to hear from you there.
Please help us make this message more visible by sharing the episode, subscribing to the podcast, and leaving us a rating and a review.
I’m Cevan Castle, and my guests have been Christa Donner and Selina Trepp, speaking about the creative platform, Cultural ReProducers. Our conversation will continue in the next episode.
Here is an audio clip from Spectralina’s Quarantine Concert, the 2021 live streamed audio visual performance.
Please take extra care, we’ll meet you back here next week!
[Audio clip from Spectralina’s June 2021 Quarantine Concert for the Experimental Sound Studio fades out]
Referenced in this episode:
Spectralina Quarantine Concert, for Experimental Sound Studio Quarantine Concerts, June 2021
Works Cited in this episode:
On Gender Differences, No Consensus on Nature vs. Nurture | Pew Research Center
Cultural ReProducers: Propositions, Manifestos, and Experiments